Lecture given by Dr. Kinley on February 20, 1971 in Los Angles, California.
(also called: SPECIAL MINISTERS’ MEETING: LUST NOT LOVE)
RECORDED ON REEL RECORDER BY DR. CARL F. GROSS TRANSFERRED TO 2 90 MINUTE AUDIO CASSETTES BY LAMAR GREER TRANSCRIBED BY JACQUELINE BOWERS PROOFREAD BY GERALDINE ROTHSTEIN AND MARY GROSS APPROVED BY INTERNATIONAL PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE – MARCH 1995
TRANSCRIBER’S NOTES
1. … INDICATES THAT DR. KINLEY ENDED A WORD OR A SENTENCE WITHOUT VERBALLY COMPLETING IT. 2. STUDENT BODY COMMENTS ARE INCLUDED ONLY IF MORE THAN ONE PERSON RESPONDED OR IF DR. KINLEY WAS SPEAKING DIRECTLY TO A SPECIFIC PERSON. 3. UNLESS EMPHASIZED BY DR. KINLEY PAUSE WORDS HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT OF THE TRANSCRIPT FOR THE SAKE OF EASE IN READABILITY AND COMPREHENSION (AH, UH, SEE, YOU SEE, YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN, ISN’T THAT RIGHT, UNDERSTAND, YOU UNDERSTAND, DO YOU UNDERSTAND.) 4. ___ INDICATES AN INAUDIBLE WORD OR SYLLABLE 5. WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS ARE COMMENTS OF THE TRANSCRIBER
DR. ROGER JACKSON: Now as you all know this is a special meeting. We had a ministers meeting here last Saturday night, which many of us were here. And the founder and dean requested that there was several things to be brought up at this meeting and since he is present then we will turn the meeting over to our founder and dean that he might bring these things out himself. At this time…
DR. KINLEY: I’ll asked Dr. Harris to give you an outline.., I do want to say this before we get started, Dr. Dennis Droulard requested to be absent in San Francisco. And he asked me last night if it would be alright if he went and I told him I thought it would. And he had made a previous commitment and I didn’t want to disappoint his ___ so I wanted to make it known to you that he wouldn’t be here and that he had asked permission. Now whatever transpires in this meeting I presume that, that we’ll be recording and since it will be recorded why then you can have it for future references. Now that’s that. Now Dr. Harris was present at the meeting that we had in San Luis Obispo and I have asked him to give an outline on the things that we wanted to talk about. That meeting also was recorded and we have a transcription of it but we won’t resort to that at the present time but we will ask Dr. Harris to give an outline on the things which we wish to discuss.
DR. ROBERT HARRIS: In Dr. Kinley’s talk in San Luis Obispo on Friday, February the 12th, one of the first things he went into was the disciples prayer and he said that that is out now because Yahweh the Messiah is in us and He’s making the intercession Himself. In the prayer Yahshua spoke of our father but during His ministry He often spoke of My father. So the My father has become now the our father.
Point number 2: he spoke about love. He said the love that we have is really lust. Yahweh so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son (the only son that He had) in the same way that Abraham offered up Isaac, his only son by Sarah. Messiah also spoke to the disciples at that time that they should love their enemies but He knew that they could not do that because they didn’t have anything in them to love with. During His ministry He spoke nothing of giving them a new commandment but at the end of His ministry He said, `a new commandment I give unto you that you love one another.’ And He had to say this because of Moses having to come up into the mount with the second tables of stone on which He wrote the words which typified the New Testament which was written in the heart and in the mind.
Then he went on to say of what John wrote in John 21:25, where he said that if all the things that the Messiah did in fulfilling the law and the prophets were written in a book, the world could not contain the book. Now in this situation the world, the word world is not translated age, he meant the world as you know it to be. Now he said when you go back to the law and the prophets and pick up on the things that are written there that if Yahshua the Messiah fulfilling all that was written in the law and the prophets then that’s what, that is what John was speaking of when he said `the world could not contain the book.’ There are a lot of things that are not written in the law and the prophets, that is they are not polytechnicized, but there is enough written there for you to predicate your understanding and knowledge of Yahweh upon.
Now some of us have come to him and we have had our finger on the Book and we have asked him questions as of whether Moses or Zipporah circumcised their sons back there or whether both sons were circumcised or not. Now we.., now I know what is going on (speaking of himself) and I know who circumcised who. Now if you could see me as I really am and not as old Henry C. Kinley then you would know all the answers. What is it that Moses could, could write that I don’t know somethin’ about when I am the one who showed and told Moses everything that he wrote about. Now there are a lot of things that I told Moses that he did not write about. Now John is saying that if all the things that he did, did, fulfilling everything that Moses did write about to say nothing of that that he did not write about then the world could not contain the book. Now I know whether this or that is so or whether it is not so, but in order not to put myself out in front of Yahweh, that is in the eyes of the people, I will not tell you this or that except it is written in the Book. I know what is left out and what is not left out for I am the one who caused it to be left out. For instance you read of the genealogies and pedigrees coming out of Adam and Eve. Why is it that there is no genealogy given for Melchizedek? Do you think that Yahweh did not know anything about Melchizedek? Let me bring up anther one. We wrote in the book that a high priest had to be 30 years of age and a low priest 25 years of age. Now you come to me with the question of Aaron being 84 years of age when he was appointed high priest and you want to put me on the carpet about this. Now you don’t see that Aaron was really not the high priest but the typical high priest as all of the law and prophets contain nothing but types and shadows.
If Moses and the prophets had written down everything that they saw in visions and revelations they would have been writing until yet because Yahweh is infinite. Now you remember that Yahweh had a book which He had written and I’m not talking about the law and the prophets. Now these things are grievous unto me just as they grieved Yahweh that He’d ever made the man. But the word had gone out of His mouth and it could not return unto Him void. Now we said that there are 5 books of the law and that is true but the Talmud consisted of 15 books instead of 5. It was comprised of the 5 books of the law and also a commentary. It was also called the Midrash and this is what the Jews upbraided Messiah about. It was also known as a Mishna. Now if you would take your Bibles and turn it anywhere in Exodus you will find that it reads, `and Yahweh said unto Moses.’ Now if it had been Moses writing he would have said, `Yahweh said unto me.’ This proves that somebody else was doing the writing besides Moses. Now when you turn to John 5:44, it reads that Yahshua’s speaking, said, `had you believed Moses you would have believed me for Moses wrote of me.’ Now is Yahshua the Messiah a liar? This proves that they who wrote down what Moses dictated, left out a lot that Moses said or that Yahweh said. But Moses had given the credit for it. I want our ministers to realize that there is a lot that is not written and I don’t want them to try and hold me to the line in regards to these things. Now one will ask, `what do I have to go on?’ Well, you have the universe in its totality, and you have the Book that Yahweh wrote.
Now everyone, this the second division, now everyone of you is responsible right along with me to all of the people in the world. And one will say, `well, I don’t have a minister’s license.’ Well, they’re no good. Everyone who attends our school should have a minister’s license even if they never get up on the floor. Now this is a, is a school and if you attend any public school you are given a diploma or something to show that you went to school. Now we should set up some standard or limitation in time for those attending school to fail or to qualify. We want it thusly so that one cannot say that he is not responsible just because he doesn’t have a license. Jeremiah wrote that Yahweh said that they all shall know me from the least to the greatest. Now the license that we have given are irrevocable. Whether one has a license or not this does not mean that he has a ticket to heaven or that he doesn’t have. In the 13th chapter of Acts Paul and Silas were given letters or licenses to go the gentiles. Paul also had letters of authority when he was on his way to Damascus. Now such licenses are respected out in the world and you must have them but know full well that your license does not guarantee your entrance to heaven. I think that we should write a letter along with the license to explain that the license is not a door knocker to heaven. We should try to correlate our giving of licenses to the public school’s method of showing that students have attended school. If one does not want a license he will have to quit school. We don’t want anyone sitting up in school and going against the things we teach in our schools. We won’t excommunicate anyone but if one does not accept, accept the license it is a mute testimony to everyone that he is not in line with our teaching and consequently he can go straight to the lake. That is roughly an outline of what he said.
DR. ROGER JACKSON: Would anyone like to add to that? Are there any comments, any question? No. SECRETARY: As the secretary, I think the minutes of this meeting, I would like to know DR. KINLEY: Whatever you do please talk loud enough so everybody in the house can hear you.
SECRETARY: As the secretary of this meeting I want to know.., I could not write fast enough as he was reading and somebody make minutes of that meeting of what he read. Now what I wanna know is this: what I’ve already put down here before he started reading is already to copy of that in the minutes of Dr. Harris. And you can put the minutes ___ after that ___ because I could not, as fast as he read that, I could not write the words myself.
DR. ROGER JACKSON: What now you should do that and hold that for future references but as far as this regular minutes I don’t think you have to read that at the next ministers’ meeting.
SECRETARY: No, yeah, but ___ DR. ROGER JACKSON: but if would be good for reference, for future references.
DR. ROBERT HARRIS: I could break the thing down into 2 big categories for him which might help him. Now the number 1 thing that we probably have up for discussion tonight is in reference to getting it across to the ministry about your Book, that is the Bible. And we got to understand that there are many things that are not written there in polytechnical fashion. Some things are left out. Yahweh said a lot of things that Moses didn’t told the 70 about that they didn’t write down. So consequently you just can’t put your hand on the matter all the time and consequently we don’t want to hold him to that and we should all realize who we’re speaking to when we go up in his face and come ask him about this and the other thing. We really don’t know who he is when it comes right down to it. That is one thing we want to get across. But we want you to know that there is enough written that Yahshua the Messiah fulfilled or that there was written in the law and the prophets for you to substantiate your understanding and knowledge of Yahweh upon. Now that’s category number one.
Then category number two is that we want to discuss the matter of dispensing licenses to everybody in this school because we want everybody to feel responsible for their role down there at the school. We don’t want any going out here and just acting any old kinda way because they say, `well, I don’t have no licenses ‘ and they think they have the right to do this or the other thing because the world is not holding them responsible because they don’t have licenses. Those are your two, two big broad categories and we wanna set up some kind of a, a tenure of school (you understand what I mean by that), I mean some kind of time limit, 4 years or 6 years or something like that. Adopt some kind of plan to show to the world that people that are in attendance down there have attended school and that they are either qualified or not qualified on the basis of what they have understood. So these are the two big things that we have here before us tonight.
DR. ROGER JACKSON:: And I would say in conjunction what Dr. Harris just said there. Now you take when Yahweh had Moses bring up that 2nd table of stone. Now it don’t say nothing in the Book where he gave him the divine specification what size them stones were to be. Those stones as Doc said they were right where he took those first ones out, they fitted right in there. Now they had to be the right size to fit in there. Now you don’t have that in the Book for that put ’em in the same place. Now the one that was there told us about it. Now what he’s told us before and we ought to know from that that he is the one that was there and stayed in the background without putting him on the carpet about that and those kind of things.
MAN 1: I’m very conscious of the fact that the vision that was given to Moses was not given unto Adam. It was Moses that had the vision and not Adam but I’m conscious of the fact of that and what I would… And also this: that the licenses that we have are not recognized downtown at all. I called up downtown and they said that you do not have to have a minister’s license in the State of California to preach the gospel and so.., that’s what they told me. So as far as being.., the licenses are concerned, I, I don’t know whether to turn, well, not to turn ’em in but what I’m saying is there seems to be some kind of confusion about the licenses and the public, so far as the public is concerned. The reason why I said that I’m fully conscious of the fact that Moses did have a vision and.., well put it like this in revelations and the vision was not given to Adam but it was given unto Moses. You follow me? And what Moses saw, he was talking about Adam. As far as the devil is concerned, that background and all of that kinda stuff, he was relating in his vision about Satan, what he saw in his vision, Moses but as far as Adam was concerned he did not see a vision. Moses was relating what he saw in the vision. And what I’m saying I’m conscious of that fact. Maybe I could bring another point, I could bring another point since we brought up
DR. KINLEY: It’s not necessary (MAN 1.) It’s not necessary to, to bring out any further points. Give me a chance to present to you what this meeting is called for. It’s not called for no teaching that’s not what we’re concerned about, as such in this particular meeting. What we brought the meeting and had the meeting called for is, now I’m not interested what they said down in town about the ministers’ licenses and who said it. I’m not even interested in that. That doesn’t have anything to do with this because, now so far as having the license is concerned since we’re discussing license. There’s a lot of people down in town and elsewhere in the state that really does not know the law of the state. They don’t know they don’t understand it. That’s not their obligation, that’s not their responsibility and so then consequently they don’t know. We don’t depend on them to know. Do you follow what I’m talking about?
But the thing of it is what we are talking about, about license in the schools and attendance and conduct. Now this is the cardinal point that we want to get over in this meeting. Now this is it. This is the primary objective for calling this meeting: is to make each and everyone that comes down to that school from the least to the greatest (now, listen at what I’m saying,) we want them to be conscious of the fact that Yahweh does exist and he does have a purpose, now all of the rest of it is nil. All the rest of it is nil. Now then since that be the truth we want everybody come, that come down there to be conscious of that. We want them to realize it, to come to the full realization of the existence of Yahweh. Now that is what we are trying our best to get over to the school down there. We don’t care what the other fellow thinks or how he feels about this and that and the other. There’s bound to be a difference of opinion but we don’t want our people that is holding up Yahweh, which is the real Creator and Father of the universe, and we say that your testimony that you do have the truth down there. Now Yahweh has defended that. We don’t have to ask anybody anything about it, He’s defended that. He’s defended this for 40 years, whether the other fellow believes it or not. Now we know the people ain’t gonna believe it.
We are ready, we are already aware of that but don’t let it be your fault that somebody stumbles over you because you are responsible for the world out here. Let me put it in this category. When Yahshua the Messiah was here walking around in the flesh he told 12 men (now is that almost right?) they walking around with him and witnessed what He did, not a one of them had the Holy Spirit. Are you following what I’m saying? They were chosen to be right, when they dropped their fish nets or other occupational duties and followed Him. Now they were not to be instructors to Him and He was not trying to go according to their concepts and their opinions and asking them what they thought and believed about it; He already knew they didn’t know. Are you following me now? And then even after they looked at what He done, they didn’t know why He did it. I mean for 3 1/2 years. Are you following? And He told them, `you don’t know what I do now but you will know hereafter.’ Right?
STUDENT BODY: Right.
DR. KINLEY: So now what I am saying to you is this: this is nothing else but a repetition of that in the close of this age. And everyone of you that have been blessed to come in direct contact with this school please recognize the responsibility is on your shoulder not to go out here and blaspheme the word of Yahweh. If you do you will lose your soul. Now we brought it up this way, we brought it up this way: some people, because they don’t have a minister’s license (I could set here and name folks that should have had a license years, many years ago, they didn’t have it.) They just didn’t have ’em. Well now, they should have and because they didn’t have that was no reason why that they should get out there and act a fool because they don’t have a minister’s license. Then on top of that, (I want you all to see the seriousness of it now,) on top of all of that, if you do have a minister’s license or if you don’t have one, either way, if you have in you what I’m talking about you do have a license, I’m talking about the Holy Spirit. Now the man downtown ain’t got nothing to do with that. He doesn’t know anything about it and the law, the civil law, doesn’t know anything about it and they can’t conduct Yahweh’s purpose because they don’t know what it is. Are you following me? But now you that do come and you have had an opportunity to learn, now the same thing going to, will either destroy you, destroy you or save you. Now we don’t want the world falling and stumbling over somebody that belongs to the school, with or without license, we don’t, we don’t want ’em to do that; which means this: we want your conduct to be above board, in other words we want you to live so that you can be of.., what you oughta be to the other person out there. Now when it comes to limitations of understanding and comprehension, we know that everybody that comes down to school is not going to have the same understanding about some.., some are more progressive than others. Some are more retarded than others. You see what I mean? And your seniority doesn’t mean anything when it comes to that. You can go to school 40 years and still be not what you ought to be. You just ought not to be like that. Do you follow what I mean? So we’re not predicating anything at all upon your seniority. Now that’s one of the provisions and standards of which I’m talking about in giving somebody a license, it’s.., although you can set up some kind of a, a, a, some kind of a, a limit, that’s your prescription. Now I didn’t say that was in the Bible, but that’s just a…
Now let me show you some of the importance of that, and show you whether it’s necessary or not, whether you have license or you don’t have license or you do have or don’t. I’m talking about the law now. If you would see some of those letters that come from all over the country to me to sign from the federal government, about conscientious objectors and how long they been in attendance and what authority and all do you have. And I have to write ’em, then you could realize whether or not that it was necessary, it was important, the government requires it. Now do you follow what I’m talking about? I been signing ’em ever since the war been going on and they been sending ’em to me from all over the country and they haven’t turned down one. So if it wasn’t necessary that the school be incorporated and somebody to know you and so forth and so on, why are they sending me these papers? Why does the federal law require it? Now that’s.., a lot of people have tried to get out of going to the war and all those kind of things and tried to play hypocrite around with you, conscientious objector, and they change the law several times on it. Now you just have to have somebody to vouch for you. Now I want to know whether that’s right or not.
STUDENT BODY: That’s right. Yes, indeed. DR. KINLEY: You sent some papers down here, you ought know something. Is that right? MAN: Right.
DR. KINLEY: and there’s others sitting right in the house that have. Now here’s what I’m saying brethren. We want to realize first of all that we’re not just doing something just as a school, a state school or something like that or a public school or a something like that, that’s not the type of thing that it is. This is.., what we’re after is Yahweh’s eternal purpose.
Now let me bring up this. In defense of what I have said to you already and what you just read. Let me bring this up in defense which I have presented it so many times until I’m sick and tired of it. I’m just as good and sick of it as I can be. I stand there on that floor and tell you that Yahweh through this body, now it don’t make no difference to me, Leonard, whether you believe it or not, and yet it does make some difference. It don’t change it, if you don’t believe it, it won’t change it a bit, but Yahweh has actually raised ’em from the dead. I mean physically so and also spiritually so. Now that’s happened whether you know it or not it has happened. Now here’s what I’m saying Dr. Gross, that is a testimony in my defense regardless of what you think.
STUDENT BODY: Right. That’s right. DR. KINLEY: I have one that bears witness of me. STUDENT BODY: Right. DR. KINLEY: As Yahweh said of His son. Do you follow what I’m saying? STUDENT BODY: Yes, Yes, sir.
DR. KINLEY: This is no play thing with me. It’s a serious thing with me, because.., now let me get it over.., get this over to you clean. I want to get it, I wanna get this one over clean, you are down to the end of this age. It definitely and positively will close. It will have to do that for this reason: there’s ages yet to come and another can’t come until this one closes. Now I tried to make that clean so that any idiot can understand what I’m talking about. And Leonard it doesn’t make no difference whether you believe that or not, its’ gonna close anyhow. Now how you feel about it and what you think, it’s just gonna do that anyhow. Do you, do you see the point? Now those of you that come to school and are in the school, I just want you to be conscious of these things. And on top of all that, now listen at what I’m saying, I know there’s been some animosity about who speaks and what not down there. And somebody’s dissatisfied because `I didn’t get my turn,’ as you, as you wanna call it (I brought this up before and they ain’t paying no attention to me no how. Now then, when we do call on you, when we do call on you, do you think and do you feel, now you don’t have to answer this one, you don’t have to answer it at all, just let this one go on by the board and you be the judge. Do you feel that you have done as well as some of them that are more experienced and more qualified to speak. Do you think that you have did that well, enough to edify that audience and to draw those people in there and for them to come in there and be saved? I told you, you didn’t have to answer that one. So then just don’t be offended about it. Now Dr. Gross I have to bring you up now. You’re the President, you’ve been right with me longer than anybody setting under the sound of my voice. Is that right?
DR. GROSS: That’s right.
DR. KINLEY: As a partner in this school. Now say did you know that you’ve been sitting for the longest and he ain’t had nothing to say. Are you sore about it?
DR. GROSS: No.
DR. KINLEY: You see what I mean? Some of it.., some of the rest of you been on, been on the floor twice since he has. Do you follow?
STUDENT BODY: Yes. DR. KINLEY: And that’s the President. Now I said that to show you this one thing, now that man sets an example. STUDENT BODY: Yes. That’s right.
DR. KINLEY: Yes. Now there’s Bishop Short. If it’s, if it’s permissible that I might bring you up, Bishop. I’m speaking of you brethren as elders. I’m talking about older people in the field of religious work. Now he’s been out there a long time, he does a whole lot of setting. Are you offended about it, Bishop?
BISHOP SHORT: Not at all.
DR. KINLEY: Do, do you follow what I’m saying to you? Dr. Williams, you’ve been in the ministry quite a long time and you’ve been doing a lot of setting too. Now are you offended about it?
DR. LASALLE WILLIAMS: Not in the least.
DR. KINLEY: Now I’m saying these things to you children to clear up a lot of unnecessary animosity which has prevailed in the school and which.., has been much said, some of it has been said to me. Right? You have a minister’s license too, don’t you?
MAN: Yes I do. DR. KINLEY: You been in this school a long, long time. MAN: Yes, I have. DR. KINLEY: You haven’t had a license too long. MAN: No DR. KINLEY: And I told you to your face I wasn’t gonna give you no license and I told you why, didn’t I?
MAN: That’s right. You certainly did.
DR. KINLEY: I don’t go behind nobody’s back for nothing. Do you follow what I’m talking about? I want you to see the reality. Are you offended?
MAN: Not at all.
DR. KINLEY: What we’re trying to do to get over to this people, we’re not playing like the rest of the folks out here, trying to play church and try to play school and all that kind of stuff. That’s not what we’re doing. That is not it at all. Now let me get this down to you. If you have any sense of realization of what is going on in the world, listen now, in reference to the purpose of Yahweh and Him carrying it out. Are you following it now? Can’t you understand that Messiah said in the 24th chapter of Matthew that there would be earthquakes in diverse places. Can’t you understand that? Can’t you understand that He said that there would be wars and rumors of wars. Can’t you understand that? Now these things are taking place in your day. Can’t you understand that He said there would be many false prophets. Can’t you understand nothing? Now whenever you get around to the place where you can’t understand nothing, now there’s just got to be 2 things about it, 2 things. Now you can get offended if you want to but I’m gonna tell you and I’m talking to everybody in the house too so don’t go pointing no fingers at yourself and say I was talking to you individually. I’m talking to everybody. There is such a thing as a feeble mind. Now Yahweh is responsible for that. And then there is such a thing as a sound mind. But Yahweh being a just judge He knows the difference between one thing and the other. Now are you listening? Do you, do you understand what I’m talking about? But we want all of you to act like we’re living in the last days. We want you to conduct yourselves. And above all, now this is one thing above all, say, we just have to do it, there’s no other way out of it. We have to put men and women down on that floor down there that’s able to hold the attention of the, the other fellow. And we do want them to come in and to be saved.
And so far as personalities and what not, if you are looking at it as I look at, you wouldn’t have that admiration of individual personalities.
STUDENT BODY: Right. That’s right.
DR. KINLEY: Because.., I know Bishop Short don’t know nothing, I know Dr. Harris don’t know nothing, I don’t either. It’s not on a personal, it’s not on.., it’s not on that, so don’t let that vail fool you. Look on in beyond that, beyond that vail. Now those are…, but people, cause all they can see is what they can see out of their eyes, that’s, that’s all they, that’s all they can see. Now that’s why I called this meeting. Now I have, I, I will just have to tell you about this. Now, you people, you don’t hear me go out in the street and put nobody’s business in the street. Do I come down there in the school and whenever something happens to some of you and put your business in the street and tell everybody what you done and this and that and the other and so forth and so on. Have you ever known me to do that?
STUDENT BODY: No. DR. KINLEY: I want to know now. STUDENT BODY: No. DR. KINLEY: If there’s anybody that.., then get up and say I did. STUDENT BODY: No, sir.
DR. KINLEY: But I tell you of some mighty serious things that have come to me and that’s discussed with me about the ministry and about the school in general. I’m not talking about the world out there, I’m done talking about inside the school. Not talking about that. And everyone that comes to me and asked me anything, about their marital affairs, or anything at all, I discuss ’em with you and I don’t discuss them with the other fellow out in the street or other people in the school.
(TAPE 1 SIDE 2)
DR. KINLEY: It has always been my prerogative to have witnesses to any conversation that has been held and in some cases we have made recordings of it so that you can’t say that I said this and you said that and so forth and so on. But regardless of all that, these things just shouldn’t.., a lot of them that have come to me just should never have been in the first place, just ought not to have been. Now, I’m, I’m through with that phase of it. Am I getting over anything at all?
STUDENT BODY: Yes.
DR. KINLEY: I just want to know whether I’m doing any good or not.., I’ll just go ahead and shut up. Now here’s another thing we’ve tried religiously to do in this school because the people can’t see no further than what they can see out of their physical eye, we know that now. For that reason you’re president, that’s to say he’s a white man. Now I just might as well be down right honest with you, Dr. Gross is failing. Now I’m don’t mean in his deportment or character or anything else about him. I’m not talking him, I’m talking about him, himself. I am too. So also is Bishop Short. Are you following me now? We were not expected to live eternally in these, in these bodies. Williams, you’re failing too. And you can tell something about Dr. Harris and there is other in the house too. You see what I mean? So now let us do this, and if you notice, I can go down there and sit down and it doesn’t make any difference with me… I think Dr. Harris is one of the best ministers we got down there.
STUDENT BODY: Right. DR. KINLEY: I think that. STUDENT BODY: Yes, he’s the best.
DR. KINLEY: Now that’s what I think. Now if you think I think wrong then you get, get me told now. I think Gary Mathess is one of the ones. Now that’s what I think. Now the reason why I brought it up that way is because Dr. Harris is black and Gary Mathess is white. Now let’s just.., brethren, what I try always to do is lay the cards on the table face up. Now so far as this man, Dr. Gross’s ability in wisdom and knowledge and understanding of the purpose, there isn’t anybody down there any smarter than he is.
STUDENT BODY: Right.
DR. KINLEY: Um, um. You got that all wrong if you thought so. And just because he’s failing in his health or in his age, and me too, Yahweh, Yahweh can raise a man from the dead. I mean physically so and spiritually. And we just want all of you to be conscious of it. Now don’t you go ahead and get jealous now cause I didn’t say something about you. Don’t do that at all because I think this, and what we’re laboring for, we want you to be a success. We don’t want nobody to fail down here. And we want everybody to realize, irrespective and regardless of how humble a person is that gets on that floor down there, we want you to realize that it is possible that Yahweh does testify and speak through him; in other words, let me put it like this: if you scream through a microphone down there and say, `Jesus wept,’ then if you whispered, it’d be the same thing. It would be the same thing. It may not have the same effect but it’d be the same thing so far as the truth is concerned. Now my instructions to you before we had the next, the last convention was this: to.., don’t, don’t whisper because the people in the back can’t hear what you say and it will not help if they can’t hear. And if you notice Yahshua the Messiah, He spake with a loud voice. He had a great big audience. And Yahweh spake from the mount, He spoke so everybody could hear what He said. They couldn’t have, said, `well, I didn’t hear what you said.’ They couldn’t have that for no excuse. So now, be mindful of that. Be mindful of your conduct, how you conduct yourselves out here. There have been some complaints that come to me about different ones that said that they’re yours and all like this and that and the other, and you people in that school down there. Well now, what that amounts to, it just shouldn’t never be; in other words, don’t try to defend yourself out here. You already know the people are wrong. Now when I say try to defend yourself, I didn’t say try to defend Yahweh, I said you. You, you follow what I’m saying? Now your job is defending Yahweh out there but not you, yourself. Do you all understand what I mean by that, that the word of Elohim be not blasphemed.
Now I wanna bring this up since.., I didn’t know whether Dr. Harris or some of the rest of you in the school have gotten a, a postal card from John Littlefield. He wants me to come to Long Beach tomorrow, Sunday, 2:30. They gonna have what they call some kind of a get together, you have the card. Well now, we’ve tried.., we’ve played that. We’ve played Perkins, we’ve played John Littlefield, and we’ve played the other fellow out there. And we just played it until we got that thing run in the ground. Is that right?
STUDENT BODY: Right.
DR. KINLEY: But those people are unaware and they’re unconscious that they don’t know what it’s all.., and they doubt whether you do or not. And they set there and look and listen and then think. So now if Yahweh has opened up your understanding so that you can see far enough to realize His existence, realize that He’s omnipotent, and omnipresent. You’re conscious of it, then you’re blessed. You’re blessed above measure and you should set an example to everybody that you come in contact with.
Now one other thing I wanna mention. Now.., and that’s this.., now, this was also on the list, not in words. But now, if the authorities of this school, and I’m talking about state and national, deem it necessary, I do, to hold meetings down there at that place at specific intervals like we.., we’ll say like Sunday morning and Sunday night and Wednesday and Friday night. Now if you feel, the Holy Spirit within you as it is within me, I feel that I know as much about it as anybody down there. Now you may think I’m deceived but well if I am that’s, that’s still just what I think. I know as much about it as anybody down there. Now then, if it works within you as it does within me, you for the benefit of the other fellow will come to school. That is if it works in you like it does in me, you will come to school. Now if it don’t work that way in you as it does in me, well then we can see a justifiable reason for your absence. You see what I mean? Now this is my 40th year, I gave all, I gave it all ___, I’ve been through it, and I’m not sorry of it and have no apologies to make, or anything to anyone.
Now, is there anything that anybody wants to bring up that Dr. Harris has given an outline there. I hope I have touched a good bit of it. I realize now, I realize that one thing in particular there and I didn’t say too much about it. He read it on the paper there and he didn’t say too much about it, and I, at least I haven’t said too much about it but I would like to touch that before somebody calls my attention to it. Now that is this. I think about twice in my whole career I told you something about it.
MAN: Speak a little louder Doc.
DR. KINLEY: I said about twice in my whole career, to my remembrance, now others have said it but I think as far, as far as I can remember I haven’t said this before. Now he has made a recording there and I have said it twice and I notice he’s got it on that paper, and that’s this. Now I talked about having a vision (ain’t that the way you hear me express it all the time?) and a revelation. Now, I didn’t fully explain that in every detail but I presented it to you in such a way you could understand it. I took the thing off of me to give our heavenly Father credit and honor. Now, can I say just this? Now I did that back there with Moses and I did that up here with the apostle and I’m still doing it.
STUDENT BODY: Alright. DR. KINLEY: Did you follow? STUDENT BODY: Yes, sir. Amen.
DR. KINLEY: I don’t have a thing to boast about and I don’t want anybody to think, I don’t want anybody to think that I think that I’m any more important than anybody else. I’m not. And I want you to know this too, I have to obey. Did you hear what I said Leonard, I said I have to obey our heavenly Father. I’m not running the show, I have to obey. I want you to be conscious of that fact. Then as much so then as I have to obey, you do too. Do you understand what I mean by that? I mean that our Father works within me, He dictates to me, that’s what I mean by that. I do have to obey His dictates, just like anybody else. Is that clear? And I want all of you to know that. I’m not free any more so than you are. I’m a prisoner. Now about the vision, back to that again. I tried to tell you this. It is Yahweh that is in me that is giving the vision. I think I told you that a, a couple of times before. Now, I realize, I’m fully conscious and aware of the fact that you are not going to come in there and drop down and sit down in there for no hour and a half or two and three hours or three or four months or, or years for that matter or as long as you’ve been in the school, 39 years, and as long as I’ve been in and then get it all learned up and everything. And this diploma business we’re talking about, this license business, the, the, the diploma, you’re not gonna get no diploma. Nobody’s gonna get no diploma. That’s at the end of this, at the end of this program, the end of this age when you get your diploma and your crown. Do you understand that? And you won’t get it then unless you strive lawfully. Now, is that clear about the vision?
I think I should say this, I’ve been telling you things now, now I’ve got something to ask you. Do you consider (and I’m taking to everybody in the house) that I have a right, take it on any term you wanna take it on, as just a founder and dean of a school, move it out of the religious category if you want to, or put it back in there, either way. Do you consider, I’m asking you, that I have a right, a political or an ecclesiastical right to choose whomsoever I will to be my immediate assistants? I want to know if I’ve got that right.
STUDENT BODY: Yes, sir, right, very definitely
DR. KINLEY: If I don’t have it, I wanna know now. I’m not against anybody. Now in conclusion as far as I’m concerned, the way I’ve tried to run the thing is like this. Dr. Harris, now ain’t nobody that can come along and argue about him not going to school. You can argue about me not going and tell the truth about it to, but he did. Now that don’t qualify him upstairs. There more fools that went to school and…, that’s, that’s what’s wrong with the ___ world but that don’t qualify. Well, here’s what we wanna do, we wanna shut the mouth of the fool out yonder, so then we’ll just put somebody up there that’s as just as big a fool as you are, if you want to take it that way, and studied that same things you have and then go on up above him. Do you understand what I’m talking about? So don’t be kicking no more about that. I don’t want to hear no more about it. That’s if I have a right to choose. You said I did. Now there’s Dr. Gary Mathess, now what I’m doing now, I’m trying to show you, and I want you to be with me on, and I want you to understand me, I want you to know what’s going on, not be trying to inflate your ego, or feeling humiliated or embarrassed. Your purpose should be the same as mine.
STUDENT BODY: Right.
DR. KINLEY: And you know good and well them folks are blind so then I wanna put Dr. Gary Mathess and Dr. Harris in there. You all like that?
STUDENT BODY: Yes.
DR. KINLEY: If you don’t say so. Now look, now that’s just 2, 2 people. Now Dr. Gross and I, we work together and I work with him and I work with Gary. `But I’m dissatisfied with that, I don’t like that at all,’ so I wanna put Bishop Short in there, and I wanna put.., let me pick out somebody, how about that? Now this fellow right here. Stand up. You. You’ve been doing pretty good. I’d, I’d like.., you see now Bishop Short has far more experience. `Well, I won’t..,’ Don’t think I’m gone, I’ll be around too, don’t, don’t get that in your minds at all. And when you get.., well, I want one of them white boys, now how ’bout that? Ain’t that plain talk? Do you understand what I’m talking about? Clive back there, try working with Williams.
MAN: Thank you Doc. DR. KINLEY: Are you going? MAN: What? DR. KINLEY: Are you going? MAN: What?
DR. KINLEY: I say, are you going? Oh, you’ll be back. Now then, we wanna team ’em up as much as we poss.., now Roland’s a good, good preacher. You see what I’m talking about? Roland’s a good, as good as we got down here, and we’ll put Roland and him together, young Dr. Mathess. What we’re trying to do, we’re putting on a ___, we’re trying to put on a show. We’re trying to show Yahweh off, not you.
STUDENT BODY: Right. That’s right.
DR. KINLEY: Don’t nobody care nothing about you, me, nobody else, they don’t care nothing about you but what we’re trying to do folks is to get these people to see the power of Yahweh. And as we see fit, which we are going to see then, to put the babies and everybody else in, cause everybody is involved in this and I do mean from the pulpit to the door and from the least to the greatest. Don’t feel left out about it but when you have an opportunity, those of you that I have spoken about, which we got some another thing that I have to.., some of the rest of them too, but when you have an opportunity, don’t do it like this: say, `well, it’s my turn.’ Don’t do it like that. You get up there and preach with all there in you is, it’s up to you now to demonstrate the power of Yahweh through you and to edify that audience out there. And we gonna call on all of you. Is that right chairman, Mr. Chairman and the rest, we gonna call on all of you. Don’t you think that because we didn’t say something right now that you, that you’re left out. We need a buddy for, for him and for Dennis. Now what we’re trying to do, we’re trying to show off. Do you all understand what I’m trying to talk about? Do you understand? Now we been doing this thing this way for years. So then we could say, well Freddie, for one, and we could almost run out of gas, because we run out of white boys. Roger Jackson needs one, little George that’s in the kitchen there. Roger, could, could you take under your wing and take him on?
DR. ROGER JACKSON: Yes, sir. DR. KINLEY: Yes, indeed. Now, now do you all follow what I’m talking about? STUDENT BODY: Yes. DR. KINLEY: It’s understood now. Is there any questions?
MAN 1: There’s one thing that was mentioned, Dr. Harris spoke of, and that was that you said that love that we have for one another is lust and I disagree with that.
DR. KINLEY: Well, (MAN 1), I tried to tell you awhile ago, I tried to tell you a while ago I’m not concerned about nobody disagreements and agreements. That’s not what we’re here to discuss. Now look.., I did say that. I did say it and I think I’m in the position to prove it, to prove it by some of you that are sitting here cause you come to see me. Do you follow?
STUDENT BODY: Yes. DR. KINLEY: Do you understand what I’m talking about? STUDENT BODY: Yes, sir. Right.
DR. KINLEY: Now how ’bout that. I don’t say nothing unless I’m in a position to prove it. I.., if you noticed a while ago I went down around that way and almost everybody here at one time or another have been up to see me.
STUDENT BODY: Right. DR. KINLEY: And if what I just said wasn’t so, you wouldn’t have been there, so I’ll just prove it by you. How about that. STUDENT BODY: Alright. DR. KINLEY: Now does anybody else want to disagree with that?
MAN: I didn’t disagree with it, I didn’t understand completely your statement when you said everybody here had been up to see you about what …
DR. KINLEY: I.., now let’s make that good and clear. I said, at one time or the other almost everybody here. I don’t know anybody here that hasn’t been to see me, now if you wanna get all cleared up. I don’t know anybody here that hasn’t been up to see me about this one thing: if they had love for one another as you should have had it, you wouldn’t have been up there on no such case as that. Did I make that one clear Dr. Traynham.
DR. WILBUR TRAYNHAM: Yeah, for the simple reason I’m still trying to find out… DR. KINLEY: I’m talking about, listen, DR. WILBUR TRAYNHAM: If I could finish… DR. KINLEY: Yes
DR. WILBUR TRAYNHAM: I’m still trying to find out what all in here we’ve been up there for, when we start talking about love and lust.
DR. KINLEY: Well, I’ve said this, now, if we know the difference between love and lust, that’s one of the main problems, knowing the difference between love and lust. Now that’s, now that’s where they’re having their problem at and that’s where all the misunderstanding is hinged upon. If we had love, I said we, had loved one another as Yahshua the Messiah had loved us, you wouldn’t had anything to come see me about.
STUDENT BODY: Right. That’s a fact.
DR. KINLEY: You name it whatever you want to, I said, you can go ahead and name it anything you want to but you wouldn’t had anything to come see me about, about your problems. Did I get it over that time, Doc?
DR. WILBUR TRAYNHAM: I understand what you said DR. KINLEY: Well, what’s wrong with it? MAN 1: I will agree on the one thing that the Holy Ghost is one thing and sexual relationships, DR. KINLEY: We ain’t talking about sex, (MAN 1), I ain’t talking about sex. MAN 1: Well, that’s what I talking about
DR. KINLEY: Well then, then you didn’t make yourself.., wait, wait just a minute, wait just a minute. Now I tried to get it over to everybody in this house. That we are down here now to leave you out of it. We’re not down here to discuss human relations. That’s not what the meeting is all about, did you all understand that?
STUDENT BODY: Yes, sir. Yes.
DR. KINLEY: We’re not down here to discuss marital problems either, we’re not down here to discuss sex. You follow what I’m talking about? Do you understand me, Dr. Gross.
DR. GROSS: That’s right. I understand you.
DR. KINLEY: I’ve tried my best to make it clear, that we are down to the end of this age. Understand what I’m talking about? Don’t make no difference what your problem is. We want you to be conscious of the ever presence of Yahweh and then act like it.
STUDENT BODY: Yes, sir. That’s right. DR. KINLEY: Dr. Harris could you do a., you’re a.., or Bishop Short, could you do any better with the thing than I did there? DR. ROBERT HARRIS: No.
DR. KINLEY: You see what I’m talking about? Say listen, you, you recite John 3:16, `God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should have eternal life.’ Do you understand that? Now whatever a sin could be, or whatever type and kind of disobedience it could be, that’s why He hung out there on the cross, that’s why He hung out there on the cross, but we get these little old petty things, and that’s what I’m trying to tell you, do away with that trash and realize, come to the fullest of realization that we are living right down to the close of this age. Do you all remember the earthquake here the other.., last Thursday? I ask you the question and say, if that had been the end, would you, would you been all right? Do you follow? Well now, that’s what we’re trying to teach you in the school, to be prepared because He’s gonna fold the whole business up. You follow? You do that conscientiously, and individually and personally. Well.., is there anything else, or any other questions or have I satisfied you, Doc?
DR. WILBUR TRAYNHAM: No, I haven’t had a chance to ask my original question yet, about what Dr. Harris read. I wondered why I understood correctly that it was an offense to the dean for us to question things that were not in that Bible. It seems as if we question certain things because of.., the nature of the question there seems to be some offense made of it, I don’t understand that?
DR. KINLEY: No, that’s, that’s a misunderstanding. You see, now here’s what, here’s what.., maybe Dr. Harris could read it over again.
DR. WILBUR TRAYNHAM: I wish he would. DR. KINLEY: So that there won’t be no misunderstanding there cause he went into couple.., two or three details there on that. DR. WILBUR TRAYNHAM: That’s why I understood to be quite offensive, to ask those questions, DR. KINLEY: Listen… MAN 1: He said that we were not to question such things,
DR. KINLEY: Now just a minute. On that, on that score right there. Now, I’ll explain, then you read Doc., you’ll read. Now, for you to come to me and to expect or to ask me something that is not explained in the Bible, then hold me responsible, try to hold me responsible for what’s in the Bible and what is not there. Now, this is what I was trying to convey to your mind and to your thoughts. Yahweh knows, knows what’s in the Bible. We’re teaching you all the time down there, you’re.., you make reference to the Bible. Now that don’t mean Yahweh don’t know all that, everything. He knows what’s in there and what’s out of there. Now for you to look up at me as being the Dean and to respect me in the position in which I expect to be, I don’t try to tell you things that is not written in the Bible. And here’s another thing I have said something about, I’ll put this one in here, I’ll add it to it, which I haven’t said. I don’t appreciate nobody running up in front of me. Know what I mean by that?
STUDENT BODY: Right. That’s right.
DR. KINLEY: Now since it was me that.., I’ll go back to my former statement, that had the vision and the revelation. Then you try to solve it, don’t, don’t run in front of me, because there’s things I am not gonna tell you until time for me to tell you. Now the reason why I’m not going to do that is because you’re not prepared to receive them, any more so than I’m prepared to tell you. Now I wonder if that’s clear?
STUDENT BODY: It is. DR. KINLEY: Did you understand me that time, Doc? DR. WILBUR TRAYNHAM: I understand you very clearly. DR. KINLEY: Anybody else in the house that did? DR. WILBUR TRAYNHAM: I’m sure now that I understood the.., I’m sure now that I understood what was read.
DR. KINLEY: Yes, that’s, that’s, that’s what I was talking about, that’s what I was talking about. Yes, you see here, for you come up here and say something to me about what’s in this Book. Now for me to go changing it, or nullifying or revising it to you when I’m teaching you to go by the scriptures. Now that don’t mean I don’t know. Want to get an example? I’ll go right back to the one you referred to in the notes about that one boy that Zipporah circumcised, Moses’s son. Now there couldn’t nobody eat the Passover without being circumcised. Did that spell anything? Does that spell anything to you?
STUDENT BODY: Yes. That’s right.
DR. KINLEY: Couldn’t nobody eat the Passover that wasn’t circumcised. Put all the detail in there.., in between first one place and another one, it’s not written out. They just take it broad side and come right up through there and you miss it clean, cut clear. If I don’t start to have an argument with you about what’s in the Book and there’s something else there, I think I oughta clarify and that’s this: I try and, and make references down there in San Luis Obispo and I’ve said it here many times too. If you look, get over there in Exodus. Now, now, I didn’t want to make reference to the scripture but I just wanna show you. Start reading somewhere, some of them, some of them chapters.
READER: 6th chapter. Then Yahweh said unto Moses DR. KINLEY: I don’t care where you’re reading. It really don’t make no difference. Where, where was you reading? READER: That was the 6th chapter DR. KINLEY: 6th chapter of Exodus? READER: That’s right. 7th chapter, DR. KINLEY: Read, read the 6th chapter again. Start with the first READER: Then Yahweh said unto Moses. 7th chapter, and Yahweh said unto Moses. 8th chapter, Yahweh spake unto Moses.
DR. KINLEY: Now here’s what I’m gonna tell you about that. If Moses had been writing, now that’s what that man read while ago. If Moses had been writing he would have said, `Yahweh said unto me.’
MAN: In the first verse, that’s right. But it’s written in the second verse. DR. KINLEY: You follow? Now what they’re doing is writing down what Moses dictates to them about what Yahweh said to him. STUDENT BODY: Yes.
DR. KINLEY: That’s right. Now, Dr. Harris mentioned it a while ago. Go on back over there in the 5th chapter of John in the 45th and 46th verse. Often times we miss the boat because we don’t catch on. Was nobody up there in that cloud but Moses, now how’s anybody else besides Moses going to know anything about what Yahweh did up there. All right read.
READER: Do you think that I will accuse you to the father DR. KINLEY: Do you think I will accuse you to the Father READER: there is one that accuses you DR. KINLEY: There is one that accuses you. Now wait a minute. Moses is accusing them. All right, read. READER: even Moses DR. KINLEY: even Moses READER: in whom you say you trust DR. KINLEY: in whom you say you believe in. All right, read. READER: for had you believed Moses, DR. KINLEY: Huh? READER: for had you believed Moses
DR. KINLEY: For had you believed Moses, or if you had believed Moses. There, there, there was them that did the writing and they said what Moses said. And He said now, `if you had believed Moses,’ then what?
READER: You would have believed me DR. KINLEY: You would have believed me. Why? READER: For Moses wrote of me.
DR. KINLEY: Now, the world ain’t got that learned yet. He was right along.., Moses writing about Him but they didn’t know it. Do you follow? Children, there is so many things Yahweh has hidden, there’s so many things, so many things. If we would just try to understand the most simplest things, the depths will be revealed but you have to first get the simple things.
(TAPE 2 SIDE 1)
DR. KINLEY: Now, let me speak of the elementary chart, the one we have down there now. Now, I tried to show you that there was just one door in the ark. I tried to show, this is simplicity, I showed you just one way through the Red Sea, just one way into the tabernacle. Now look, if you can’t understand that, you’re not prepared to understand no parts of it. You want to know all about this up yonder and in the realm of eternity and you can’t even understand that there wasn’t but one door in the ark, and there wasn’t but one way through the Red Sea, wasn’t but one way in Yahshua the Messiah, said, `I am the way, the truth, and the life.’ You ain’t prepared to understand nothing. That’s why I made the charts. When it comes to mathematics, I mean, and condensed it too, that chart. Now often times we want to know all about the deep esoteric secrets of Yahweh and we don’t understand the basic and fundamental principles of it. We don’t have the A B C’s learning. So, now, is, is everybody satisfied? If ever you get around to the place where you’re qualified to go to that chart and just show somebody ain’t but one way through the Red Sea, and here’s the pattern, it’s blood and water, spirit. If you get qualified to do that. Now you either go through this way, through the Red Sea, you either go in that door that Moses, Noah put in that ark. You either go in this way to get into the sanctuary. Now if you could understand that, when it comes to talking the Popes Hat, he can put you in heaven… You see what I’m talking about? You know better than that. You see what I’m talking about? Understand them things. Then when.., that’s what you have to feed babes with. You can’t come up here and give them all this big stuff, can’t understand it. And often times you wanna pace and run way up in front of the pack. `Doc are you coming?’ Don’t do it that way. I’m having as much of a problem telling you as you are understanding it. That’s the reason why I stood up and told you and nobody can tell you Yahweh’s purpose but Yahweh Hisself. I don’t know nothing. I made that clear to you. And I have to say it that way in order to give our heavenly Father honor and glory. Now then, are there any more questions? Any misunderstandings? If so, I want to know now.
MAN 2: I had a question on the notes about.., you said, I think it was the last paragraph in that first section you had about.., you had the universe through…
DR. KINLEY: That’s true MAN 2: and the book that Yahweh wrote. Now which book is that, I was wondering which book… DR. KINLEY: The book that Yahweh wrote. It’s in there. ___ ___ like that. MAN 2: the one that Moses saw DR. KINLEY: Yeah. Well, you want to know, you want, you want to know which one that is. You’re asking a question? MAN 2: Yes.
(THERE IS A BREAK IN THE TAPE, IT WAS THE END OF DR. GROSS’ REEL RECORDING)
DR. KINLEY: He wasn’t always doing no more so than anybody else. Right? STUDENT BODY: Right. DR. KINLEY: That is what we might call the unwritten words before man put something down on the page.
MAN 1: Dr. Kinley the.., I brought a piece of paper here. I don’t know whether the folks here might be interested in it, but you know the beta,
DR. KINLEY: who?
MAN 1: the beta. You have an alpha and a beta in a ___. It’s a formation of a b and this formation of a b hah taken on the form from the oxen from the team of oxen. The formation of the b has taken on the shape and form from the yoke of oxen. It’s called the b when it’s single, but when they double that yoke that means the 2 oxen plow together but when that yoke is broken then you have a single which forms an a but the b which is alpha and the b which is next in the constellation of numbers or even in the constellation as you see it why the b is the 2nd brightest star in the constellation but you can liken that unto the femur, you know a woman she has…
DR. KINLEY: Well, (MAN 1), look, I’m trying my best to close this meeting out. Now that’s what I’m trying to do. And I’m trying to answer, like we had a scriptural question here. Now what he talked about is going into a lot of scientific detail and so forth and so on. Well now, we don’t want to teach a lesson. That’s not our objective here.
MAN 1: What I’m saying, this is in the book, this is in the Bible.
DR. KINLEY: Well, I didn’t say that it wasn’t, (MAN 1.) I did not say that. All I am.., there’s a whole lot of things we’ve talked about here tonight that’s in the Bible. But.., we.., this is not.., this.., we didn’t have this meeting for no polytechnical study in the scriptures. We didn’t have that.., that isn’t what we had this meeting for. Now what (MAN 1) Jimmy is talking about, it would be better to go down there in class and, and, and teach a lesson on anything that you see that is in the Bible and so forth and so on but I have advised you not to do this, not to run in front of me. I had advised you to do that. Now here’s why, here’s why I’m saying that, not because I’m counting anybody a dummy, but what we’re after is getting the other fella to, to, to understand down there. We’re trying to get somebody saved, we’re not playing. You understand what I mean? That’s what we’re trying to do. We all wanna be together on the thing. We all want to be together on it, so now if there’s any questions about anything that I have said thus far. Now you asked me a, a question predicated on what we’ve said in the script and I answered it. Anybody else got anything or are you satisfied, (MAN 1)?
MAN 1: Only this, that the reason.., one of the reasons why that you cannot detect this because the difference between the greek and the hebrew in its translation. They have named the stars after, such as Tarsus after the greek. And so when you look for those things in the Bible it makes it hard for you to determine because it has been translated different. They name the stars after some god and this.., many gods and the constellation, such as Jupiter,
DR. KINLEY: Oh yes, that’s right.
MAN 1: So what I was saying as far as the femur bone is concerned that is the same as the bosom. The man’s scrotum is placed in the bosom because these are the feminine parts, female and femur and so the women she carries her child in that bag, in that section and the man also in the, speaking of the yoke, is scrotum is typical of that seed being carried in the bosom…
DR. KINLEY: Well now (MAN 1), now I doubt.., I doubt seriously, that’s what I was trying to say. Now there’s just.., there’s hardly anybody setting under the sound of my voice understands now, what he understands about what you tried to explain so now, we can’t, we won’t stay here tonight and discuss the, the right or the wrong or how the thing is, we won’t do that. We won’t.., that isn’t what we wanna do tonight. What we wanna do tonight is to get together on these imperative things so that, that there won’t be a reproach. And I’ve tried my best, I tried to stick it out from the fundamental things purposed for which we were here tonight. The fundamental thing which we are here tonight for is to.., for you to become conscious, ever conscious, at all times of the everpresence of Yahweh, that the world out here don’t know, you’re supposed to. And you say it in the school yourself, you say the teaching is right, so then I’m asking you to conduct yourself in such a way that the word of Yahweh will not be blasphemed.
Now if I have asked too much, would you be so kind as to let me know, no I’m talking to everybody, I’m not talking to just you, I’m talking to everybody. Now I perceive different things come up in different people and different times and what not. I perceive it, I can feel them vibrations. Understand those things. Well now, there may be some other things that we ought to discuss here, there may be but the primary purpose and objective of this meeting is just what we just told you and we go back to that same thing. Now there’s a difference between love and lust, righteousness and unrighteousness. There is a difference between right and wrong, good and bad, and I tried to tell you tonight rather than to be evil spoken of by your conduct, it’d be better for you to take low and go on down. Now I did it for 40 years. I did it for 40 years and still doing it. And I wouldn’t like to set here and tell you, you folks, and I want all of you to hear what I’m saying, now I wouldn’t like to set here and tell you that I’m in the clear and ain’t nobody saying nothing unrighteous about me. No, I got more on me than any of you in here.
There isn’t anything, there isn’t anything they can say about me but what they haven’t already said and done. I have a reputation, that’s been the worst there is in the world. Now you’re my defense and Messiah said to them after He resurrected from the dead, He said you are my witnesses. So.., now is there anything else? Did you stand up, Doc?
MAN 3: I have one quick question tonight so far as giving the licenses to everybody in the school, is there a minimum age limit set up or…
DR. KINLEY: That’s, that’s, that’s for the board to decide. We have a board meeting and incidently you being a part of the state ___ good question and that hasn’t been touched tonight, that’s for the Board to decide. Anything else?
MAN 4: Gotta hand over here Doc.
DR. KINLEY: I can’t say that the rest of ’em know too.
DR. EVELYN MCGILL: Dr. Kinley, I thought perhaps while we’re talking about deportment and conduct in the ministry, there has been some new people that have come to school and it’s has been brought to my attention, they said that one of the ministers that spoke they wanted so much to go and speak to him about something that was brought out that they enjoyed and saw but they wanted to know what is the arrogant attitude of some of these ministers and when you walk up to them they almost stumble over you and don’t say pardon me, that they can’t say, and I thought it would be pertinent to.., at this time to speak about it. I’ve noticed it myself that.., it was brought to my attention and one of the ladies said that she gets better treatment than that at the church from the ministers and she couldn’t understand why they walk around so high up and overlook you when they’re trying to go and compliment them about something they’ve seen.
DR. KINLEY: Well, now you say that was brought up.
DR. EVELYN MCGILL: Um hum.
DR. KINLEY: Now, I have said this already. I’ve said this already about conduct and the way you deport yourself. I didn’t polytechnicize it as she is calling on me to do now, but you should be.., we haven’t.., we’ve set up committees, we’ve done everything. Entertainment committees and house committees and all them different kind of things. We have, we’ve set them up, done everything along those lines. And we’ve tried to teach.., they that fear Yahweh spake often one to another a proverb. We’ve said everything we can say. And if you would have friends, you got to show yourself to be friendly. We, we did all of that. We’ve said all of that and I don’t, I don’t think it’s a proper attitude and disposition for you to be hostile, even to an enemy. I’ve said that too.
DR. LASALLE WILLIAMS: Mr. Chairman, may I have a point on the chair, Dr. Kinley you were, you were absent physically when we had our last meeting. When Dr. Durham just made a suggestion that it would be good if we had a preachers training on deportment but I think if we could improve ourselves, if we have a preachers training on the deportment, the proper deportment and how we should conduct ourselves and how we should do this and how we should do that. Dr. Durham made that suggestion last time and I thought it was very good which if we had a training among our ministers not spiritually things but just deportment, the proper dress and how we should treat visitors and so forth and so on, how we should conduct ourselves in public; I think it would quite beneficial to us.
DR. KINLEY: Dr. Williams, Dr. Williams, listen, let me say this… Did everybody hear what he said? Anybody back there didn’t hear what he said? Now are you asking me to elaborate on this.
DR. LASALLE WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. I, I…
DR. KINLEY: elaborate on it?
DR. LASALLE WILLIAMS: Yes, yes.
DR. KINLEY: Now look, now let me show you this, I ain’t gonna do a thing but just repeat over what I been saying, nothing else. Now let me show you what I mean. Let me explain to you what I mean. Now to take that in terms in which you have failed, and express it that way. I have covered that. Now here’s the cover and that’s, that’s, that’s what I have been trying my best to do. If you believe the teaching, if you accept and if you are conscious of the everpresence of Yahweh like you properly should be and I hope you are, then you will.., how am I or anybody else gonna teach you some routine, this and that, the Holy Spirit in you oughta make you that way. That’s what you’re down there for. I been saying that all night, that’s really what the meeting was called for. Do you understand? Now I take it this way, Dr. Williams, now it was nice to say that that way so that we can repeat the thing right back over. It was very nice to say that that way so that we can repeat that right back over. Now that’s about the third time I’ve made a repetition of, of that one thing. Do you all agree with me?
STUDENT BODY: Yes.
DR. KINLEY: The responsibility of the world is on you. If you know anything about the truth, if Yahweh’s revealed anything to you, then you are responsible along with me. How do you get like that? You make up the body. Now we don’t want no bickering between one another about nothing and that’s part of my complaint. That’s one of the reasons too, that I called the school together, is because of these things right in here, right in, right in the.., I ain’t talking about the world out there now, talking about these that are in here. You.., and I’ve tried my best, I’ve done everything I can do now folks, to make you aware and to make you conscious of the everpresence of Yahweh. Yahweh only charges you, He only charges you with that which He has revealed to you. Now there may be a lot of things you don’t know, whole lot of things you don’t know. I’m sure there is. And there’s a lot of things you’re not gonna find out even down before the curtain comes down. But one thing you do know, that.., just like the blind man (I’m cutting this one short.) The Pharisees brought these accusations against Him. Well that man had some eyes, when he was born blind. He said, `now whether the Messiah is a sinner or not, I don’t know nothing about that, but one thing I do know, whereas I was blind, I do now see,’ in other words I’m speaking about what you know.
Now here’s something else. Yahweh will reveal to you things as you go on to know, but you have to be submissive, you have to be obedient and then He will reveal things to you.
Look how much dissention there is in the world out here about the one Book you call the Bible. I tried to go around this way and tell you about the demoniac spirits incarnated in man posing as ministers as right…, I’ve tried to do.., I’ve tried to do everything I could. Brethren I tell you the truth, my conscience, my conscience, I speak as a man, my conscience is not bothering me. I have told you and I have given you today what Yahweh has given to me to give to you and I’ll say this, you are responsible for that for which you have been able to perceive, and then you can be obedient, be obedient. Obedience is much better than sacrifice. Now somebody will come along and say this, `look, I want you to understand something, what I believe is my own business, I’m 3 times 7, I go my way and you go yours, I live my life and you live yours, you don’t know nothing about me and listen here, my thoughts are just as good as yours.’ He’s right. Who ever thinks that they’re right, cause none of his thoughts are good, none of our ways is no good.
Haven’t I tried my best to get that over to you? I’ve tried my best. I’ve done my uttermost to get these things over to you through the years. Some things, I’ll be frank and honest with you, some things I’ve got up in front of that audience and said that frightened me to my heart to have to say it but if I didn’t, I’d be responsible, if I didn’t, then I would be responsible, I had to say it. And I have said many things, many times over and then went home and cried half of the night about it and wet my covers because I knew that some of them wouldn’t be able to understand it, I knew they wouldn’t, I was fully aware of it. But now I wanna say, I love everyone of you. I’ll do anything I can to help you, anyone. And I will say this in conclusion, I want everyone of you in this house, everybody, everybody in the house, I’m talking to everybody that’s here, I want you to be good ministers of the gospel and demonstrate the power of Yahweh, fully aware and conscious of the fact, it’s not my purpose but it is His. And whether we gonna see or we’re gonna agree or not, he’s gonna draw the curtain down on you pretty soon. I told you the truth, my conscience is clear. If I can help you by questions, answers, and so forth and so on, on anything at all that’s what I’m trying to do down there in the class. I’m doing, I’m doing my best, I’m not laying down on you folks down there, I’m doing my best. I’ve done what our father has taught me to do to try to show you and my conscience is clear and my spirit is clear. And if you wanna go and do whatever.., that’s up to you, that’s none of my business.
And while I’m on that score, I’d like to tell you about this. Now anybody.., Dr. Gross, you been knowing me longer than anybody else, but all of you that are here sitting under the sound of my voice, you tell me if I have ever did… You tell me when I’ve come in your house or in your home and meddled in your business or asked you anything at all about your domestic affairs or your, your problems or what not or meddled in your business. Get up and tell me about it. If anybody in this house knows I did that. Now that don’t mean I haven’t been in some folk’s house but they asked me in and some of them have been scared to see me. I’m gonna right back to the same thing I said a while ago. Now that’s what you’re gonna have to do because I am not gonna come down and meddle in your business. Somebody’s been knowing me along time so you let me know when I come up to a house and meddle in your affairs any kinda way. I don’t do it that way. I’m not a busybody meddling in other peoples affairs. And a lot of things that goes on in the home between a man and a wife and so forth and so on, let them settle that. Now if they think they can’t settle it, then they need some help, then we’ll try to take care of that. We’ll do.., be as much help to them as we possibly can be but otherwise hands off. Now what we do about that, we go down the school and just preach the scriptures, preach it, preach it and therefore it will knock out and knock down and get up the best way you can, if you get hurt, well understand you’ve just down got knocked down, that’s all there is to that. I’m not gonna apologize for that. And since I don’t have no apologies to make for coming in your home meddling in your business, I’m not gonna apologize to you for teaching and preaching the truth down yonder. Is there any more questions?
DR. ROGER JACKSON:: If there’s no more questions then at this time we will considered ourselves dismissed. DR. KINLEY: I’d like to say one more thing. Is everybody, do you all think that this meeting was beneficial? STUDENT BODY: Yes, yes, Yes, sir.
DR. KINLEY: Now all of you try to get together. All of you try to get together and our babies, new in the ministry, try to put them up there, and push and pull cause we want every last one to be good speakers. And we want to ’em to be out there in the world, we want to bring people to school, bring everybody you can. We wanna be of help but we do want to remain conscious at all times of Yahweh, who He truly is, just don’t lose sight of that. And then don’t lose sight of the fact that there is a devil out there too. Dr. Jackson finish your statement.
DR. ROGER JACKSON:: Is there any questions or comments about anything discussed tonight. If not then we’ll consider ourselves dismissed. By the way, who was the next ministers’ meeting supposed to be held at. Dr. Edna Bowdy’s house. Alright. Then we can consider ourselves dismissed.
(END OF TAPE)
